Terrific or Terrible? Access to Halloween haunts

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Transcript

Skye: But I will always ask as well, what, you know is this properly accessible for me, you know and yeah. And obviously if they say no, I'm like, why not? And they can't answer, you know.

Skye: There's nothing they can say unless they turn around and say next year, maybe. Maybe is not good enough.

Skye: They need to do something now.

Beth: Hello and welcome to the Disability Download. Brought to you by Pan disability charity Leonard Cheshire. On this podcast, we respond to current topics, share stories and open up conversations about disability. Today we've got a special spooky episode just in time for Halloween.

Our host, Josh, will be talking all things accessibility when it comes to Halloween attractions and horror films. Josh is joined by fellow Halloween enthusiast Skye. In today's episode they'll dive into how inclusive spooky season really is from haunted houses to the way disability is portrayed in horror films. So sit back, relax, and get into the Halloween spirit.

Josh: Welcome everybody. My name is Joshua Reeves and welcome to the Disability Download. I'm a Campaign Support Officer for Leonard Cheshire. And today we've got a wicked podcast for you on accessible Halloween events.

Would you like to introduce yourself for the guests that we've got today?

Skye: Yeah, my name's Skye Jordan.

Josh: And erm Skye, as far as I'm aware and I've known you for quite some time now, I know that you're massive horror fan yourself.  It's always good to have you on spooky season on this podcast.

Skye: Yeah.

Josh: So my first question for you is how do you feel about the general accessibility of Halloween events? And do you attend them? Do you like haunted houses?

Skye: I mean, yeah, some of the events that are done, they're great. OK. But there have been certain ones that I know of

Skye: That I've ended up. I can't go in. It was amazing. I couldn't go into it because of all the mud and they didn't have anything down to sort of, like, let me go in, sort of thing.

Josh: Ohh, how did that make you feel?  Did you feel like when you got there, did it seem accessible. Did they just say it was accessible and it wasn't? 

Skye: It's accessible for everyone else but me, basically.

Josh: So, they actually said it was accessible?

Skye: Yeah, because well... I just remember they're being like a massive queue of people and they said to me, “Oh its really muddy so I don’t recommend you going in it.” So that’s like saying  to me, you can’t go in it. You Know. 

Josh: Yeah. Did you try?

Skye: I did, yeah. But I didn't bother in the end because I saw how muddy it was and there was nothing that would have stopped me sinking into the mud. But yeah.

Josh: So you mentioned that you you've had good experiences and bad experiences with this. Can you share some of the good stuff of what you’ve tried to enjoy?

Skye: Well normally I do my own thing on Halloween. 

God, I'm trying to think of a good instance. I love going on ghost hunts. So yeah, that would be a good one.

But obviously I would make sure the place is accessible before I go into it.

Josh: Yeah.

Josh: Can you share a memorable Halloween experience with our audience today? What did you? What is being good and fully accessible for your accessible issues?

Skye: There's some places like Margam. They do like fright nights, which is coming up now, it is actually and yeah, there's accessible bits, but they also tell you that there's non accessible bits. So you do know when you go there you're sort of like expecting that. 

Josh: How does that make you feel?

Skye: That one, I'm not so bothered because I'd rather not have people jumping right out at me.

Josh: See I’m the polar opposite. I love, people jumping out at me, I went to...

Skye: I’d probably end up punching them in the face!

Josh: So I tried to go Bristol a while back. And they stopped me going to an event, well part of the event which was an exorcism. I'm a massive exorcist fan and I was like, I want to go to an exorcism like a stage one. 

Skye: Yeah, not a real one.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, no not a real one. Yeah, we don’t have them publicly. 

So I tried to go there and they were like, no, we can't get your wheelchair there. You can't get to this part. And I was like, what's the point going there if I can't get in the maze, can't get people to jump out on me. So I went to Barry, last year, with a couple of friends of mine and we really enjoyed it but when they jump on you and stuff, I love it. But then yeah, one person just didn't want to jump on me because he was scared of my disability and I was like, that's what I’m here for. I’m here to get scared. I’m here because I’m a horror fan. It’s that stigma then, the patronising approach to it. 

Skye: Yeah they’re like too scared because they, you know, they’re scare they’re going to hurt you  by jumping out at you or something . 

Josh: What I don't get is, why would I be there if I was terrified of that? Or if our disabilities would be affected?

Skye: Exactly, we just wouldn't go would we. If we didn’t want that to happen and stuff like that so yeah. 

Josh: Have you ever been to a haunted house then? Because we talk about mazes, but they are designed for non disabled people, especially with stairs and narrow passages. How does that affect you and have you ever been to one?

Skye: I have to be honest, I haven't tried to go to one of those because I know there's gonna be stairs and there's not going to be a elevator or anything like that to get me upstairs. Unless they’ve got a stairlift, there you go! 

Maybe that's what they should do. Start putting stair lifts in with the stairs. A lot more people be able to join then. 

Josh: Yeah. And they can feel like a gremlins. Like fit on the stairs where I'd already seen the gremlins where they have the steel lift and the person goes flying down. They should have something like that.  So yeah,that would be good. But no, I just feel like that they should be more accessible attractions. Especially haunted houses, because I would love to go to old school haunted houses and I know that they're not designed for wheelchair users because they're old and they are there for a reason because obviously you don't want to change stuff because the ghosts, the ghost experience might not be there. The ghost might not want to come out. So yeah, I totally get it. But it’s really hard because you want to do this stuff. 

Skye: Yeah, it's like me because I like going on ghost hunts, and there's been ones that have said “Oh it's not really accessible for you.” So I haven't been able to go, obviously. And yeah, that's disappointing.

Skye: Because it's like some places I really want to go to and I can't because they just won't allow.

Josh: Have you ever written to anyone about the feedback, that they told you that it's not accessible?

Skye: No. I don't think I have. Yeah, I haven't.

Josh: I feel like there should be some kind of like TripAdvisor app that will allow you to access on the Halloween holidays to see what is accessible. Because I even find pumpkin patches really hard.

Skye: Yes, yes, that's exactly it. Because they're the ones with the mazes and everything. At this time of year, obviously with the rain and everything else, it just makes it too... it would be too much for a wheelchair orother disabled person to go through.

But there are things they could do. I think anyway. (laughs) Like wooden sheets throughout the whole maze, wooden platforms so you can actually get in there and safely and go around the maze safely, with a sort of flooring you know. Something they could do, so that we’re not going to be stuck in the mud or whatever. And then it’s making it more accessible for people. 

Josh: Yeah and I think that society should have that equality approach again, that I know that that there are different equalities in the world right now, but then disability is such a push back. They need to just focus on what are we going to allow, how we going to allow our disabled horror fans or Halloween fans to actually attend these things. Because I went to a pumpkin patch, I think two years ago and I was stuck twice. In the mud. Luckily I was with friends that are quite strong and stuff, because otherwise I would have been stuck there stranded. 

Skye: Did they warn you before you went in?

Josh: no, they didn't. They were like, oh, it's accessible, but it's at your own risk. That's what it said. But then I’m a risk taker, I like to be a little rebel. As you can imagine, so yeah. 

But yeah, it’s really hard and sometimes I get upset over it because I'm such a Halloween fan and I know you are too and I just feel like I wish I could have that experiences of like,  getting scared. 

You know if someone chased me with chainsaw, not to be worried about if I’m going to jump out my chair. I want to do a zombie run one day. 

Skye: That would be really cool. They did do one in Cardiff, I’m not sure if it was last year or the year before. But I wasn't aware of accessible access there was or anything like that. Because sometimes they, you know, sometimes advertise what's going to be on. You turn up thinking oh that's fine, because they haven't mentioned anything. But I’d rather know before hand so I don’t get disappointed. 

You know, some places will not say that it's not really accessible. And that’s wrong. They should always say whether its going to be accessible or not. That’s the downfall, but I don’t know if its just here in Wales and England. I wonder how they treat people in other countries. 

Josh: Yeah, I want to know what America's like in terms of they got such big events. I want to know what the events are like in terms of wheelchair users and other different types of impairments.

Skye: I actually went, this is 1996 now. So yeah, very long time ago. 

Josh: That was the year before I was born. Sorry, sorry.

Skye: OK. But anyway I was on my own in America. I went there. I was meant to have gone with a friend, long story but whatever. 

Anyway, so I decided for Halloween, I'm there for Halloween. And I went to the Universal Studios there. They put on proper shows. This was before I was in a wheelchair. But I did see disabled people enjoying themselves and having fun. They were like putting on little shows and stuff like Beetlejuice graveyard rocking review and things like that. That was accessible. That one was in LA, I’m not sure what the one in Florida is like.

Josh: I’ve been to Florida and remember actually seeing Beetlejuice the first time. Yeah, like it was in 2006 and I didn't even know what Beetlejuice was untilI saw this random guy with like makeup on. I was like woah this guys cool. Is this for a film? Thats cool!

But in terms of like, I think different countries have got it better. And I just wish that Wales and England did it better, especially because of the social model approach of the Welsh Government taking a social model and using that as part of their agenda and they want to embed it and they keep on saying that they want to embed it. And I think that having that embedded will change stuff but they’ve got to showcase it rather than just talk about it. 

Skye: Yeah, its all talk with them anyways. 

Josh: I just think society needs to understand that there is horror and Halloween fans out there that are disabled. They want to they want to attend and stuff and I think it’s very important. 

Skye: You can’t wait for it though. When you go to the cinema ,like I recently went to see terrify one and two together because the new ones actually coming out next Friday.  There was someone dressed up as art the clown, which I loved. I should have had a photo taken with him. 

Josh: Thats awesome. In terms of the cinema, that was actually one of my questions was about entertainment and do you think that in the cinema, is it accessible for you when you’re watching horror films. Is that the way to be part of it? 

Skye: Yeah, I mean as a horror film comes out in the cinema, I'm normally straight there sort of thing. The Odeon at Cardiff Bay, accessibility is really good. 

And yeah, the seating areas ,some of them which are obviously in the front. And then there's other ones they've got in the middle, they’ve got spaces for wheelchairs and everything. So yeah, that's what I’ll mainly do. Go and watch a film. I hardly ever go see comedy or anything like that, I just want to see horror.

Josh: Before we go back into the film industry questions. What are the positive experiences that you've had then with access for Halloween events besides cinema? Is there a place you could recommend? 

Skye: There isn't, actually. I am thinking of joining this one in Cardiff coming up. So time will tell when I get my ticket. I’ll find out properly, what accessibility they have. Like I’ve said before, I don’t want to get there and be disappointed. I want the same experience as what everyone else is getting. You know, that adrenaline rush. 

Josh: Yeah like I have spasms, and people are like, “Oh, my God. I’m sorry.” and I'm like, don't be, I love it. I just like being scared and strange. Like some people don't.

Skye: Yeah, I mean we get called weird and stuff like that, but I don't care about that. 

Skye: We just started our work in the indoor market and we just started putting some Halloween stuff out. I have Halloween all year round basically because that’s how much I’m in to it. You know, I just love it. 

And like I said, I just wish these places would actually say properly what bits are accessible and what's not accessible, because there's always going be a bit, that maybe, yeah isn’t wheelchair accessible and will not be any good. They just need to find ways of making it better for people. 

Josh: Speaking of accessibility, and let's go back to the event industry and I want to know, considering the needs of disabled viewers that’s listening.

What in terms of that physical accessibility and reputation you think that could work better for the, for the entertainment industry within horror?

Skye: They need to listen for a start and then sort that out and get things put in place for wheelchair users, etc. They do need to do something because it’s not fair. 

Josh: Yeah because, I don’t know this but like back on Friday 13th part two there's a scene where Jason comes out and he goes down the steps and stuff, and  I’m wondering if that actors disabled, just would like to see more disabled people in the industry. 

Skye: Yes! And coming out on top as well. Like winning and beating these people. That would be amazing. 

Josh: Yeah, be the last girl standing. 

Skye: Yes! Final girl Skye (laughs)

Josh: I just think that there needs to be more representation. 

In what ways do you think that horror films could be better in to represent us with that?

Skye: Letting us win! In the movies, let the disabled people come out on top.

Josh: Do you reckon that we should be killers or the monsters.

Skye: Why not! That would be really interesting. It would be. I'd watch it. I’d rather star in it but...

Josh: It would be funny, right? If you are the monster in the film and your wheelchair battery dies out and you're like, ah, I can't chase the victim. Now what am I gonna do? They’ll get away.

Skye: That wouldn't happen in the movies, you’d have some sort of engine on it to keep you going. 

Josh: How would you handle situations when you’re invited to Halloween events that aren't accessible. And then do obviously advocate for accessibility. 

Skye: Yeah. I will always ask what, you know is this properly accessible for me, you know and yeah. And obviously if they say no, I'm like, why not? And they can't answer, you know.

Skye: There's nothing they can say unless they turn around and say next year, maybe. Maybe is not good enough. They need to do something now. 

Josh: Yeah. And that's their excuse. That maybe next year?

Skye: Yeah. Thats why I just do my own thing mostly. I’ll get my friends round, give them a scare or go and see a horror film on actual Halloween. 

Josh: What advice would you give Halloween event organisers  when it comes to the accessibility for people with impairments such as wheelchair users that want to go. What advice would you give them on how to make it accessible. You said about wooden platforms, is there anything else you’d recommend? 

Skye: Yeah a stairlift for these places that have stairs. Or have one of those elevator type stand things like a Stanstead. Just so you can get from floor to floor. They won’t do it because it will cost them a lot of money, but that's what they should be doing.

Josh: It would benefit disabled people so much. 

Skye: Yeah, I mean, apart from that, I don't know. I don't know what else they could put in place, but those are those two things. And the wood flooring for the outside and everything. And then a lift for somewhere indoors if it needs to be a lift. Oh and stop making the corridors so small! Some wheelchairs are very wide. And its difficult enough as it is without having a horror experience just going to a place and not being able to get through. 

Josh: Because it's enough stigma. No way a disabled person is coming in jumps .

Josh: I got one question for you and that is, are there any creative alternative ways that you could find to participate in the Halloween festivals or events given the barriers that you have faced?

Skye: Let us enjoy it. Let’s get spooky. Let us be part of it properly. Like get us all dressed up and everything andthen just like moving along with like some sort of cover over like the bottom part, the wheelchair part. And then we could move along like a Dalek or something.

Josh: Maybe tank bits in our wheelchair.

Skye: Pimp my ride!

Josh: That would be a cool Halloween costume, like a dalek!

Skye: Yeah because then people will probably be scared of that. Because you'll just start moving. And they're like, oh, my God, how's this person moving like that!Like gliding. 

Josh: That would be cool! Speaking of Halloween costumes. What do you usually go as?

Skye: 

I’m more into doing the facial makeup, last year I was the joker. So keeping that white on your face without sweating.

Josh: I’m into black metal so I know what that's like. 

Skye: I’ve got an exorcist mask. I actually had my wedding on Halloween in 2016. I made sure that people were going to be scared as well. Back then the place I had it wasn’t accessible at all. So there was a couple of people who couldn’t come. The venue that I picked, it was just impossible. 

I've had a few friends that just couldn't come because of that, and that was upsetting for me.

But already the venue was already picked and things like that. It was in a pub. And the pub, like has stairs everywhere. Yeah, I made sure people were really scared when they came to my wedding. 

I had a skull piñata. 

Josh: Was you like the corpse bride?

Skye: Yeah, that’s right. But I was more like a vampire. I love things to do with vampires as well. I’m also a major clown fan. 

Josh: I could tell that by terrifier.

Skye: Yeah I love him. I love art the clown I’ve got a tattoo of him. I think its because he doesn't talk through the whole film. It makes it more creepy. 

His reactions after he killed somebody? Just hilarious. I laugh.

Josh: I was gonna say do you reckon he's got disability? Do you reckon he has a speech impediment. 

Skye: He could do. Hes just like a mime who acts out awful things. My stomach was bad after watching it, I was like, I don’t want my bacon sandwich now!

Josh: Oh, no. Yeah, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Its a great time of the year, I love it, I know you do.. Before we wrap up this podcast, Is there anything that you would want to share that that you've not already shared? Any social media accounts you want to plug?

Skye: Can my plug where I work? Its called the Dragon Indoor Market on Brackla Street Centre. There's loads of alternative gear and horror stuff. 

Loads of stuff going on and I think we're also doing the Halloween special event as well. And the whole of the market is wheelchair accessible. If you’re lucky I can do you a tarot reading. 

Josh: That's cool. That's good to know. So if our audience is around there please go check it out! Even if its in rainy Wales.

Thanks so much for joining Skye.

Skye: You’re welcome its been a pleasure.

Josh: Have a spooky time everyone and thanks for listening to the disability download.

Beth: We'd love to know what you think, so get in touch by emailing us at disabilitydownload@leonardcheshire.org or you can contact us on Twitter or Instagram @ Leonard Cheshire if there's a guest you'd like to hear, reach out to us and let us know. And don't forget to like, share and subscribe to the podcast. Thank you for listening to the disability download.